From Wikiquote
Quotes of the day from previous years:
- 2004
- Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. ~ Eric Hoffer
- 2005
- My life has been a tapestry of rich and royal hue,
An everlasting vision of the everchanging view,
A wondrous woven magic in bits of blue and gold,
A tapestry to feel and see, impossible to hold.
~ Carole King (born
9 February 1942)
- 2006
- Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so
long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses? ~
Mrs
Patrick Campbell (born 9 February 1865)
- 2007
- Belief may be no more, in the end, than a source of energy,
like a battery which one clips into an idea to make it run. ~ J. M. Coetzee
- 2008
- You've got to get up every morning with a smile in your
face
And show the world all the love in your heart
The people gonna treat you better,
You're gonna find, yes you will,
That you're beautiful as you feel.
~ Carole King ~
- 2009
- I have seen the truth; I have seen and I know that people can
be beautiful and happy without losing the power of living on earth.
I will not and cannot believe that evil is the normal condition of
mankind. And it is just this faith of mine that they laugh at. But
how can I help believing it? I have seen the truth — it is not as
though I had invented it with my mind, I have seen it, seen it, and
the living image of it has filled my soul for ever. ~ Fyodor
Dostoevsky
- 2010
Suggestions
To care only for well-being seems to me positively ill-bred.
Whether it’s good or bad, it is sometimes very pleasant, too, to
smash things. ~ Fyodor
Dostoyevsky, (died 9 February, 1881). (Notes from the
Underground)
- 4. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 23:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- 1 Kalki 03:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
2 Kalki 23:44, 8
February 2007 (UTC) but now leaning toward a zero. I simply do
not consider this very appropriate as a WIkiquote quote of the
day.
- 4 because Dostoyevsky says it the way humans feel it.
Excellent, sometimes it is better to get the anger out. I love this
quote. Zarbon 22:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
-
- The ideas Dostoyevsky presents are actually far more complex
than this quote indicates. Your very high opinion of brutal
impulses exhibits what to me seems a very low opinion of humankind,
and leaves me with a very low opinion of you, and your capacity to
learn much. Smashing things merely for the delight of it can be
very pleasant to fools, but the only thing a truly wise person
seeks to smash are the delusions which keep fools smashing each
others lives and truly beautiful accomplishments in needless ways.
~ Kalki 19:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
- Your interpretation sounds almost exactly like something that
Mohandas a.k.a. Mahatma Gandhi would say. Or to a lesser extent,
Jesus. Sometimes, turning the cheek is not the appropriate thing to
do. Sometimes, action comes from being brutal. Sometimes, it's nice
to admit that ferocity can be pleasing. Do you want to know what's
most disturbing? The fact that you'd override someone else's
suggestion along with mine...two ratings of 4...which you of course
shouldn't just based on your personal beliefs. I believe
it's all good and fine to preach love and pleasantries to the
extent that you do, but I also think that you shouldn't neglect an
entire medium just based on your own opinion. If FYS sees this as a
good suggestion, and I agree with it, maybe you should think
farther than your own understanding to try and find some meaning as
to why it's so powerful; hence the power behind the message that
revenge is sweet, a dish best served cold, and even furthermore,
why this quote holds such beauty. - Zarbon 01:55, 27 February 2009
(UTC)
You suggest I should "find some meaning as to why it's so
powerful" — I actually do not disagree at all with Dostoyevsky's
observation that "To care only for well-being seems to me
positively ill-bred" if one applies this to concern for personal
well-being, as opposed to society's well-being, and also recognize
that "Whether it’s good or bad, it is sometimes very pleasant, too,
to smash things" is an impressive statement, especially to such
fools who have extended their motivations but little beyond the
infantile. But I also realize he is making far more complex and
involved points than anything this brief comment properly
indicates. And I would point out that this statement does not in
any way mention "turning the other cheek" it mentions simply
smashing things for the delight of smashing them.
In regard to your dismissive allusions, I will state that I am
quite capable and strong enough to often "turn the other cheek" —
but I am by no means an advocate of always doing so, and I believe
you will find that I am also quite capable and willing to smash
away at various forms of profound stupidity in very powerful ways
when I choose to do so. And not merely because it gives me
satisfaction, though I won't deny that it sometimes does — but
because I truly believe that in some circumstances which can exist,
that is the best way to fight some particular form of stupidity.
I usually aim to be as gentle as possible and only as harsh
as necessary with most people, especially those who are fair and
honest, but it is a practice I can usually extend even to such
profound idiots as seem to prefer to be as harsh as possible and
only as gentle as necessary.
Extending the above passage beyond the briefly quoted portion
one sees that Dostoyevsky is making an argument not merely for
indulging of personal impulses, one might find circumstantially
pleasant, but having a respect for deeper and more profound
impulses, including a capacity and will to suffer. I do
not agree with all Dostoyevsky or his characters say — but I know
his thoughts, his reason, and his emotions reach to far more
profound and truly insightful levels than I have ever seen much
evidence of yours doing:
- Is not reason in error as regards advantage? Does not man,
perhaps, love something besides well-being? Perhaps he is just as
fond of suffering? Perhaps suffering is just as great a benefit to
him as well-being? Man is sometimes extraordinarily, passionately,
in love with suffering, and that is a fact. There is no need to
appeal to universal history to prove that; only ask yourself, if
you are a man and have lived at all. As far as my personal opinion
is concerned, to care only for well-being seems to me positively
ill-bred. Whether it's good or bad, it is sometimes very pleasant,
too, to smash things. I hold no brief for suffering nor for
well-being either. I am standing for ... my caprice, and for its
being guaranteed to me when necessary. Suffering would be out of
place in vaudevilles, for instance; I know that. In the "Palace of
Crystal" it is unthinkable; suffering means doubt, negation, and
what would be the good of a "palace of crystal" if there could be
any doubt about it? And yet I think man will never renounce real
suffering, that is, destruction and chaos. Why, suffering is the
sole origin of consciousness. Though I did lay it down at the
beginning that consciousness is the greatest misfortune for man,
yet I know man prizes it and would not give it up for any
satisfaction. Consciousness, for instance, is infinitely superior
to twice two makes four. Once you have mathematical certainty there
is nothing left to do or to understand. There will be nothing left
but to bottle up your five senses and plunge into
contemplation.
As to using my own discretion in the final selection of another
quote rather than this one, when it had two 4s, I would point out
that you rather constanly seek to give undue weight to
your preferences by giving low rankings to what are mostly highly
ranked quotes of others, and now have the gall to whine and
complain that I had the boldness to do so in this particular regard
and to significantly diminish the ranked standing of two 4's with a
1. I have always recognized and asserted that you have the right to
honestly express your opinions — even though you seem to gravitate
to nonsensical nihilistic and absurdly authoritarian stances which
I abhor, and I have always also maintained that I have the right to
express mine, and to indicate, honestly, that I can have very
little respect for many of those which you seem to embrace
ardently.
I might possibly be more inclined to rank this quote even as
high as a 2 if it were extended to slightly more context to this
level of inclusion:
-
- As far as my personal opinion is concerned, to care only for
well-being seems to me positively ill-bred. Whether it's good or
bad, it is sometimes very pleasant, too, to smash things. I hold no
brief for suffering nor for well-being either. I am standing for
... my caprice, and for its being guaranteed to me when
necessary.
Fys has not weighed in on the matter since first making the
suggestion, but I stated some of my objections to the quote
as-it-stands very clearly, and I remain very inclined to going
further than my presently ranking it (as it stands) merely at 1,
and ranking it 0, as you often do to many quotes you don't want to
see used, for nearly any reason, or no stated reason at all. To
summarize my reasons: as I stated previously, the portion
selected actually gives a very poor indication of Dostoyevsky's
overall thoughts. ~ Kalki 03:58, 27 February 2009
(UTC)
- That sentence is still the most powerful from that entire
paragraph. I believe the message in there is that sometimes it's
best to rid yourself of suffering through "smashing" or, as you put
it, things you "abhor". I'm not surprised you abhor what I love, I
wouldn't expect you to have the same feeling for what I find
powerful and enigmatic. But that doesn't mean that others won't.
Also, what astonishes me is that you can actually compare idiocy
with supremacy, childish behavior with one's love for
authoritarianism, and/or infantile behavior with the
entire concept behind releasing one's anger. There's absolutely
none of those emotions/feelings emitted by these quotations. They
aren't infantile. In fact, they are genuine in that they are the
derivations of Darwinism in their masked camouflage, which to me,
is absolutely beautiful. Best put, something beautiful to me, may
be disgusting to you and vice versa. When it comes to this specific
quotation though, I believe it's most compelling when kept in its
short format my dear comrade, hence it would lose its fervor if it
were elongated. - Zarbon 05:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
-
- You state "That sentence is still the most powerful from that
entire paragraph" — I have conceded that it is striking — but taken
alone, it is neither coherent nor representational of the points
Dostoyevsky is actually making, and certainly not any expression of
profound wisdom.
-
- I will not refrain from asserting that the arguments and
statements you present now and in the past are such as I have found
to have little coherence or lucidity, and sometimes have perceived
to be disingenuous and outright deceptions and lies, as seems to be
in accord as with some of the nihilistic notions you seem to
embrace.
-
- You state that it astonishes you that I compare "idiocy with
supremacy, childish behavior with one's love for authoritarianism,
and/or infantile behavior with the entire concept behind releasing
one's anger" — I will state flatly that your absurd notions of
"supremacy" seem to me to be consummately idiotic,
authoritarianism consummately childish, and the need to
release one's anger in entirely destructive ways as entirely
infantile.
-
- I must also confess that I can have very little idea of what
convoluted notions of things you might be embracing when you state
such things as "they are genuine in that they are the derivations
of Darwinism in their masked camouflage, which to me, is absolutely
beautiful." And I do wish you'd stop calling me "dear comrade." I'd
much rather be regularly be called a goddamned fool, by people of
far more social appeal than you seem to posses (because I know
myself to in very many ways be one, but I still am not so much a
fool as you seem to be, with the presumptive and incoherent
declarations you seem inclined to make). You seem to have
often confused me with someone who is advocating the notion that
all is "sweetness and light" — or that it should be. I like
dwelling on much that is either sweet or light in many ways — but I
have no delusions that such are the only qualities to be found in
people or the world, or that they ever will be. ~ Kalki
08:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
-
-
- I really wish you'd stop the name-calling. The word "idiotic"
really doesn't appeal to me and I really don't think it would
appeal to anyone in their right mind. You can tell a lot about a
person based on how he treats others. Also, I don't appreciate you
calling me a "fool" either. Or comparing myself to you. Or calling
my declarations "incoherent". Or anything else of that nature. All
people are unique because of their differences. If everyone was to
agree about everything; if I agreed with you about all your
assumptions, then we'd be a programmed mechanism, no more, no less.
All I said was I don't enjoy how you yourself like to pursue on a
constant basis the "dwelling on much that is either sweet or light
in many ways". I would never limit myself to that. I never said you
should agree with me, I just mean that you should ALLOW all forms
of thought to pass, not just the ones you feel inclined to believe.
It's moreso about acceptance than anything. And I don't see
anything wrong with the word "comrade". It's certainly nicer than
"fool", "idiot", and "incoherent" as you seem to freely abuse
language of that caliber without any remorse. I have not once
insulted you. I have disagreed with your ideology, or set forth a
notion that contradicts your beliefs, but I have truly never
insulted you. - Zarbon 05:46, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
- 0 Ningauble 16:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC) — Not suitable for
Quote of the Day because the intent is lost without a great deal of
context. It can be rewarding to contemplate this sort of
observation by existentialists such as Dostoyevsky when one is
following the development of ideas in which it is used, or knows
where it is leading, but presenting it out-of-the-blue as a Quote
of the Day is inappropriate. The problem is explicitly illustrated
by this quote being championed by one who evidently disagrees
strongly with Dostoyevsky's conclusions, his resolution to the
existential crisis. (I would like to assume this is due to being
unfamiliar with the ideas, rather than an intention to misrepresent
them.) ~ Ningauble 16:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
It is not as a child that I believe and confess Jesus Christ. My
hosanna is born of a furnace of doubt. ~ Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers
Karamazov.
- 3. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 23:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- 3 Kalki 23:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- 1 Zarbon 22:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- 3 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Truth is not spoken in anger. Truth is spoken, if it ever comes
to be spoken, in love. ~ J. M. Coetzee
- 3 Kalki 23:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC) but willing to give this a
4 if someone else wants to.
- 1 Zarbon 22:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- 3 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
I am a ridiculous man. They call me a madman now. That would be
a distinct rise in my social position were it not that they still
regard me as being as ridiculous as ever. But that does not make me
angry any more. They are all dear to me now even while they laugh
at me — yes, even then they are for some reason particularly dear
to me. ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky
- 3 Kalki 20:37, 8 February 2008 (UTC) but willing to give this a
4 if someone else wants to.
- 2 Zarbon 22:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- 3 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
To study the meaning of man and of life — I am making
significant progress here. I have faith in myself. Man is a
mystery: if you spend your entire life trying to puzzle it out,
then do not say that you have wasted your time. I occupy myself
with this mystery, because I want to be a man. ~ Fyodor
Dostoevsky
- 3 Kalki 20:37, 8 February 2008 (UTC) but willing to give this a
4 if someone else wants to.
- 2 Zarbon 22:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- 3 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear
most. ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky
- 3 Kalki 20:37, 8 February 2008 (UTC) but willing to give this a
4 if someone else wants to.
- 2 Zarbon 22:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- 2 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Ain't it good to know that you've got a friend
When people can be so cold
They'll hurt you, yes, and desert you
And take your soul if you let them
Oh, but don't you let them.
~ Carole King ~
- 3 Kalki 19:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC) but willing to give this a
4 if someone else wants to.
- 3 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
- 1 Zarbon 01:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
You just call out my name
And you know wherever I am
I'll come runnin' to see you again
Winter, spring, summer or fall
All you have to do is call
And I'll be there
You've got a friend.
~ Carole King ~
- 3 Kalki 19:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC) but willing to give this a
4 if someone else wants to.
- 3 InvisibleSun 23:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
- 1 Zarbon 01:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)